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| [ Erollisi Marr, The Queen of Love ] [ Rants and Flames ] |
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| Author | Comment | |
| Gilg Unregistered User (3/24/00 4:44:58 am) Reply |
Why is this
considered bad taste?
Here is something I don't understand: When a guild has just cleared the entire PoF, and no other guild has made a point of saying they would like to come in and have a clearing, why should they A) leave or B) leave and re-break because they don't want to be called farmers? Personally I see it this way: If the zone is repopping and no other guild/group has asked to come in, why not stay and prevent the loss of life and problems that trying to rebreak would cause? If another guild has asked to come in, I would even think is courteous to stay until they get in to make sure they get setup safely, but only if they request it of course. I for one see no reason to make it as difficult as possible for the next person that follows. Why do I care if you come into a plane my group originally broke and you have an easier time? Its no skin off my back and if it helps you have a good time more power to you. I know certain guilds like to stay until there is a nice repop starting before they announce they have left to make it a bit more difficult for the others who follow, I wonder what the motivation is behind that. Just my thoughts but I really don't see it as farming if noone has stated they want in(a simple /t session with one member from UI,SF,TS,DK,IC,DG,Salv, and Midnight would tell you if anyone is up there 99% of the time). What is the point of making everything difficult? Seeya ingame..... Gilgamel Avamar, 49 ranger Emarr, master of the gnome hide bongos PS Is anyone else getting annoyed by this /ooc thing where you say hehe and then leave a lot of spaces and then say something that looks like an ooc by another person? Funny the first few times but seriously getting old.....
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| Vendrix Global user (3/24/00 5:40:20 am) Reply  |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
/ puts on his Nomex™ flameproof suit To me, its not so much as when you come is as it is how long you stay once you are there. In my eyes, a farmer is someone who stays entirely too long thus depriving others of the opportunity to take part [read: solo necro camping Sage for 3 days straight, he's farming]. Everyone seems to agree that the days of one group doing the planes is over. Fine, we agree. That's why we go in, kill the spawns/Draco/CT and get the f*ck out of Dodge. Then the next group comes in and camps POF for the next 72+ hours, some people staying awake for 40+ hours straight. To me, that's insane. Not only are you hurting yourself via sleep deprivation, but also you are "hogging" the plane. It just seems to me that the very same people that gave us shit for being in the planes too long (and we were, I admit it) are now the same people staying for 3 days straight. If you wanna follow up someone else's break for an easy time at it then that's fine with me. Just have the courtesy to kill one spawn and leave it for the next group. Anymore than that and you're farming. Granted, I am happy no one has invoked that gay "play nice" shit in the plane. I hope no one is that stupid, if people are in then let them finish up. Just hope that they have the sense to leave when they should (if you don’t know, I will tell you that it's less than 40 hours). Vendrix | |
Ragnerok
 Global user (3/24/00 6:02:36 am) Reply |
I understand
frustration.
I think this has likely been said before Gilgamel, but here goes again. There is a feeling that the gear you get from the Plane's should be "earned". As in if you can not put together a group which is able to do a break in then you should not be there. I am not sure where I stand on that issue. I myself feel a huge rush of accomplishment when I am involved with a successful break in on PoF. I wouldn't think you would want to prevent yourself from getting full enjoyment out of this game. As we all know, it is not likely that Verrant cares about player enjoyment any longer (if they ever did in fact care about it) so it is up to us (the players). I have grouped with you before and find you to be a competent player, but often you are complaining about someone/something/some guild etc.. I think this is due to a level of frustration based on the incompetence of the coders and the management at Verrant failing to adequately address the players concerns on issues we all know to well (overcrowding, new zones, buggy code, nerfs, changes and bad customer support). The only suggestion I can make is for you to put together a group of players you get along with and can play at the same times so you may get the experience of doing Plane's the way they should be done. It takes away from too many people for any Plane to be camped for 3 or 4 days with never a full repop. The GM's have said they will fully respawn the Plane's if NO ONE is present there. This means by going in and farming it, you are taking away the opportunity for many more folks to attempt a break in, to kill Cazic, and to get a chance at the Draco. I am sure that was not your intention. Certainly you are not a greedy enough person to want other players to suffer while a much smaller group sits bored as hell in PoF gathering "Farmed" equipment for days on end? I have tried to present a rational explanation to answer your initial question. I hope this does not come across as a "flame" as that was not my intention and there has been quite enough of that on these boards. Ragnerok Bonerender TTS
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Maeghant
Tuskbone .gif){kind=small} Global user (3/24/00 6:05:57 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Anyone else getting severely annoyed at the patches? There's another one today (Friday), which means whatever goes on with Fear repops is gonna be completely fookered again. MS has spent an entire week planing to hit Fear today, *early* morning, people skipping work, class, school, waking up early... all so we could spend daytime giving a Fear break another crack... Maeghant Tuskbone (The Level Meaningless Rogue)
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| Drall
Global user (3/24/00 7:54:42 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
FYI , we requested (SF,TS) two nights straight now a full repop of fear, the gm did it again last night 3 hrs before we went in, break was tough as shit last nigth for whatever reason we do not know, but after much level loss and xp loss we broke it and had a great night. So do not let a patch discourage you, as long as your not in the plane or camped or whatever they will fully repop fear CT and Draco, haha last night was a sick twist of fate 4 people died out of 24 getting to ledge then someone gets teled right inside scareling tower haha, can you say ouch. PS, awesome raid guys two nights, two full breakins on pof. PSS,ok I never ever brag about loot but im exhausted and delusional, I GOT MY CARMINE ROBE 
Drall Daboff | |
| Kalten Unregistered User (3/24/00 8:20:21 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Gilg, I dont think anyone has ever asked to go into a plane just out of courtesy. I mean can you honestly say after 1 day or so in fear that if I asked your guild to please leave you would? What about guilds you dont get along with. If they asked you to leave cause they had the people to take a crack at fear would you leave? honestly. That wouldnt happen. Vendrix, I think you guys have been in sky for 3 days. I dont know for sure if this is the plane you are talking about. Sky is kinda different I think. At least at this point in time in our server. I dont know how many ppl even want to try sky. I think breaking fear, taking out a god/spawn or two is a good idea.
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| Maeghant
Tuskbone Global user (3/24/00 8:41:39 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Why do the planes not come up with the servers full pop? I mean, every where else in the game, including dragons does. Instead, I was running around Fear the last two patches, naked, just to see the sights. I feel kinda silly about it now, as if there was some tremendous rend in the stability of Norrath that temporarily released the plane we know as Fear from the utter control of the god known as Cazic Thule. Sometimes, you just can not justify what is seen in-game with the game experience. I still have trouble with Verant's vision behind Fear. I seem to recall the initial Fear assaults, messages posted. This was before there were concieved notions of safe ledges, camping after CT starts DTing because he just won't stop, and so on. Large numbers of people tried to zone in at the same time (safety in numbers), but only ended up crashing the zone or all crashing to desktop or something. I can easily imagine that if 40 people zone into Fear at the same time and stay near the portal that the charging mobs can be dealt with, but everyones differing lag and zone times and technical problems keeps that from happening. It seems to me that getting a crew to camp safely during a depop, then uncamp at full pop, is more in lines with Verant's vision of a number of people making a sudden presence to break the zone. As far as breaking Fear with a defined crew, it certainly is very impressive and should be congratulated and honored, but... it is a numbers game when it all comes down to it. One could amass 40 people to give it a go, if they fail, grab another 40. It's not as sweet of a victory, it's not as skilled, but the numbers game would eventually win. I'm not meaning to downplay the *extreme* difficulty of breaking Fear with a defined crew, but just trying to grasp the inconsistencies within the planes. Hate is so easy to break, the term break doesn't even apply. I think Sky is awesome, perhaps waay too expensive, but busting the Azarak island is a fantastic example of teamwork and skills and thought. I also think a slight modification to the cr in Fear is needed. I understand the importance of Verant creating a very tense, exciting, and dangerous situation for one's character. I rather doubt that I have experienced anything as disheartening in a game as the realization that my body is in Fear, there is a time limit, and the raid fails. But there does need to be a light at the end of the tunnel, I think. Some painful means, within game... rp, to call down the wrath of a god to clear the zone. Idunno, donate 5k pp to Tunare or something. It just seems sick to me that someone could lose their corpse in there and I don't really have the option of zoning in with summoned weapons either because I tend to zone crash. Maybe a necro and wiz could create a type of island of tranquility from where corpses could be summoned (drawing a parallel to the 1st island in Sky). You can't fight or do anything there, but it's a rift in space where you can recover corpses. It would be painful... coffins and Tranquility Stones, whatever... Sorry for the blabbering, I'm waiting for the servers to come up and tense about our upcoming raid. And I'm not too thrilled with the idea of waiting 3 hrs for a gm to acknowledge a repop request. Maeghant Tuskbone (The Level Meaningless Rogue)
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Xavieran
 Global user (3/24/00 9:29:45 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
*snip* Personally I see it this way: If the zone is repopping and no other guild/group has asked to come in, why not stay and prevent the loss of life and problems that trying to rebreak would cause? *end snip* Ok so sue me, howtf do you do the insta-quote thing? Anywho... I will tell you why Gilgamel. Because when you do this, it becomes Lower Guk. Planes were not meant to be zoned safely into. Planes were not meant to be farmed days on end by killing repop. Granted, it's Verant's fault that they didn't forsee this flaw in the zone design when they tested it. But make NO mistake, the zone is what we as a server make of it. If you want to turn into a safe, list-saturated, camp-check Lower Guk line it is nobody's fault but yours. Guilds can choose not to go in and farm a repop. But time and again we are seeing people choose to do this. Why? Because a good majority of you came up through the higher levels when Guk and SolB were not even remotely dangerous and this is how you envision your higher-level fighting experience. I can't tell you the immense respect I have for Storm's Fury and TS now, They have earned my respect, and more importantly they have earned their spoils. I congratulate all of you in SF and TS on your goodies. As for the rest, I think they're serving #45 on the Shadowknight list, better get to the portal... And furthermore, I am as sickened and amused as my esteemed colleague Vendrix is that the same people who whined and cried that we spent a whole day *omg the horror* in a plane are now the ones gimp-farming for days on end. Which side of the fence do you sit on? Or do you just hop over whenever it suits you? Flame away if you must...
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| Gerome Global user (3/24/00 10:06:11 am) Reply  |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
I, for one MUST flame you. You are a Paladin, and you have a picture of a DARK ELF in your little sig pic there. It was almost equally as revolting to see Musk, the first Paladin to acquire the holiest of swords, demonstrating it for the camera in DARK ELF form. HELLO? Paladin? Holy? Knightly? Decidedly NOT Evil?!?! And another thing. I, for one, am going to come up with a 1024x768 SIGNATURE just to torque off everyone else who thinks its peachy to force people to download a meg of sig pics over a 56k modem while they try to read a goddamn message board. It will feature an extreme closeup of my middle finger, and written on the fingernail in some extravagant font with flaming special effects will be "Gerome, Goddammit." But I digress. On top of all that, now I gotta cope with the almost equally revolting thought that DRALL got a CARMINE ROBE, if that's true. Jesus H. Christ, what is this world coming to when someone as snazzy as myself has no plane gear (and a hearty "fuck you" to Verant on behalf of Enchanters everywhere) and someone as dubiously uncharming as DRALL gets a CARMINE ROBE. No justice. TGIF, work sucks.
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| Khelder
Global user (3/24/00 10:26:33 am) Reply |
...
"same people who whined and cried that we spent a whole day *omg the horror* in a plane" - Hrm..was this recently, or did it happen awhile back? Im trying to thing of the moment, but it doesnt come to mind. Was it the time where you guys stayed camped in fear? Just wondering what it is..or mebbe i wasnt invloved so I shouldnt worry about it. "Which side of the fence do you sit on? Or do you just hop over whenever it suits you?" - 
I was gonna completely agree with your whole post (Dont see that everyday
do we?) Xav, until you said this. I dunno what you all are talking about,
but I DO know of plenty of guilds who say on thing then do another if it
suits them. Your guild is on of them, so I dont think you should 'flame'
someone with that quote, when you yerself are guilty of doing the same
thing.As for the rest of the thread. Gilg, the reason I dont think yer suggestion will work is because this. Guild A breaks fear. They stay in there for X number of hours. Guild B and C do a /who all guild A. They notice their members are in fear, so they choose not to plan a raid for fear. However, if Guild A leaves after one re pop, guild B and C will know that the zone is empty, and they can post pone their raid. I highly doubt that if I saw any guild in fear, and I asked them to leave for my guild to come in, they would say yes. Im not saying other guilds are greedy, they have the right to stay if the broke the zone. The more I think about it, the more I agree with Vendrix (another first). I have never been in fear for more then one spawn of mobs..thats roughly 12 hours ive been in the zone. I wish once the last NON UBER mob is killed, the zone would FULLY repop within 2 hours or so. In that 2 hours, efficient guilds, or just an abundance of people in the zone, could attempt to kill cazic. They have 2 hours, and if they fail then they do a quick cr and get out. This would make the armor and the character wearing the armor 'truly' deserve respect. k, think that about does it. *is prepared to see all the fighitng go on during the weekend, and come back to this board on monday to read about it.*
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Verdunae
 Global user (3/24/00 10:30:21 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Do you remember the derv camps in North Ro? There are 4 camps, but at any given time, there are 2 uncamped and 2 that are being camped by 3-4 groups fighting over 5 spawns. If you have the initiative to risk your life and break a spawn, you'll soon find yourself defending your camp against 3 groups who want to play nice while other camps are sitting completely unused. It was lame then, it is lame now. Moving into a plane that someone has done because it's open, you want loot, and there's no place else to go is one thing. Moving into a plane because you've been sitting around waiting for someone to take a plane, clear it, and move out so you can get breakout the pitchforks and farm is another. I mean, when you're sitting there at hour 38 waiting for your 3 mobs to load so they can potentially drop something nice that you can random off against 8 other people, falling asleep at the keyboard, waiting 20 minutes between spawns,...is that pride and accomplishment? Get 20 people with exp to lose, run in and stand toe to toe with 3 mobs and more coming in every second, fight a total of 12 mobs in a row with everyone shouting LOM after the first 4, and come out triumphant after a harrowing 20 minute battle to break the zone, and you won't give a crap what drops. You win. Of course, the irony is that after PoF has been broken and spoils taken, I must now go to lguk and take my spot in line as 45-50 non-tank/non-caster/non-healer for the king room so I can get xp back. Mostly I'm putting in my 2 cents so Gerome will have to download my sig and personal photo, which will now appear on every post I make. 
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| Xavieran
Global user (3/24/00 10:31:07 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Oh Gerome, you are a lovable little spud. Whoever said I was "decidedly not evil"? All my holiness as a Paladin went out the window when: 1.) I had to slaughter a non-aggressive Froglock for a weapon 2.) I had to kill sweet fairies and machines built by peaceful midgets for my class armor 3.) I shacked up with Zhenya in a seedy East Freeport slum hotel for a week having a wild fling 4.) I had to get on a "list" to wreak havoc in the name of Karana the Rainkeeper 5.) When Elwyn took advantage of me after a night of drinking in Qeynos Now for the real reason: Human plate looks G-A-Y and I am f'n evil, deal with it people! "So shu think yur kung fu is purty gud eh?"
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| Xavieran
Global user (3/24/00 10:45:49 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Well you're right Kheld I, including almost everyone who plays this game has shown some bit of hypocrisy in the past but view that statement in context, I was addressing this particular issue and it was rhetorical in nature... If you look back through the old posts, you'd see the unbeleivable amount of shit we took from these same people who now want to bring the Lists and Camp Checks to fear... List-seeker shouts, "48 Druid looking for Gorgon group" Cazic Thule says, "I GIVE UP - IM GONNA GO CRASH AT INNORUKS PAD"
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| Gerome Global user (3/24/00 10:46:04 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
I didn't say YOU weren't evil... Anyone that lets Elwyn near them has to be. I was implying that Paladins are supposed to be good. Too bad about the VISION. Verdunae,     
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Cuchulain
Dawntreader  Global user (3/24/00 11:11:47 am) Reply  |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
As I see it there are at least 8 guilds that can get up there break a plane and clear it. There are others who with cooperation from other guilds can do the same thing. If you jump up there break a plane clear it and get out, you leave it open for a nother group of people. They can get it repopped before going in do the same thing as the first guild. 12-15 hours a piece quick in quick out. By hanging out you are preventing others from having a go also. People are being pretty courteous right now letting you stay up there for so long and not coming in also, but I dont see that lasting too much longer. Best advice....Do like Da'Kor/Ice Clan, Get in. Clean house. Get out. Next group gets repop. Gets in. Cleans up. Gets out. so on and so on. Lets show some courtesy to those who would also like a go. "S*** or get off the pot" Cuchulain Dawntreader | |
| Thalanthas
Brightspire Global user (3/24/00 12:29:07 pm) Reply |
I must be
hallucinating
Mine eyes must deceive me. Can it be true? Is someone actually stating that other guilds should BE MORE LIKE Da`kor & Ice Clan? It's amazing how perceptions change once these other peeps can do the things that da`kor & ice have been doing for a bit. Perhaps these guilds were never the "bad guys" after all. Come to think of it, I haven't seen many bad things said about them lately. Norrath must be coming to an end, I think this is one of the signs of the apocalypse...it has to be. I also find it pretty amazing (like some others have mentioned) that the same peeps that were lambasting certain guilds for being greedy in the past are the same peeps sitting in fear for 70+ hours. Why not try hate, why not DO SKY!!! Not sure why everyone just rules out sky, saying it can't be done, it can be. Take a chance, give it a try. What is more fun, the feeling you'll get just before your group is about to port on up to azarak island (and finally clearing the island)...or coming into an already broken fear plane hoping to win a random for some piece of equip? I constantly (and I mean CONSTANTLY) see people claim on this very board it's about the challenge...yet I see some of these same peeps stay in a broken fear for entire weekends at a time. I don't know when it's going to happen, but if this keeps up for the next month I can almost guarantee that if people sit in fear for the entire weekend other guilds will get fed up with it and just come on in...and I wouldn't blame them. Clear it once, then get out...if you didn't get anything, better luck next time, don't take away the opportunity for others to come in and try their luck. Thalanthas Brightspire
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| Gerome Global user (3/24/00 12:49:00 pm) Reply |
Re: I must be
hallucinating
  `    Happy?
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| Ogmuk Administrator (3/24/00 1:08:47 pm) Reply  |
Re: I must be
hallucinating
At least you got the tilde right! :)
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| Gerome Global user (3/24/00 1:34:31 pm) Reply |
Re: I must be
hallucinating
Late at work on a Friday, so I'm just itching for something to keep me occupied. Tilde: ~ Apostrophe: ' Accent (Mark): ` So it's Da~Kor? Cool Og~Muk I'll keep that in mind. :)
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| Ogmuk Administrator (3/24/00 2:19:41 pm) Reply |
Re: I must be
hallucinating
Thats what I said, at least you got the shifted tilde right! :) Yoo fookin irritatin booghar :D
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| Kalten Unregistered User (3/24/00 2:25:04 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
"Mine eyes must deceive me. Can it be true? Is someone actually stating that other guilds should BE MORE LIKE Da`kor & Ice Clan?" Umm not to flame you thal but yes the idea of da`kor and ice clan staying in fear for a spawn or two in order to take out a god is a great idea. They get in and out and let others try it. They have also let some dragons sit a bit and let others have a shot at them. However, things that made me mad before would make me just as mad now. They were flamed for staying in fear for 3 days. Others are flamed aswell for doing the same thing. "It's amazing how perceptions change once these other peeps can do the things that da`kor & ice have been doing for a bit. Perhaps these guilds were never the "bad guys" after all." Yes, I have changed my perseption of da`kor. Not because other people can do the things they have been doing. I feel they have been pretty fair lately. If they were to camp fear for 3 days again, I would be mad again. If they reserved a plane, I would be mad again. If they kicked people out of a plane, I would be mad again. If they did things like that now, they still would be the "bad guys". As to people not flaming them, da`kor hasnt flamed others too much either. I think its related. . Please dont make it sound like da`kor has been right all along with their ideas while we were just too naive to understand them. I think all of us as a server have changed and learned somewhat. As to people saying they want the "challenge". I fully agree with you there. I see these same people in fear for 3 days who strive to find the challenges in EQ. If you really just like a challenge also, im sure killing that brother jboots guy would be a great challenge. Another challenge I thought of would be to raid the cleric guild in kaladim. There is a lvl 50 cleric lady there and she might be a pretty good challenge. Especially with her friends healing her. Loot will prolly suck but might be one hell of a challenge. Also Gerome.. LOL some of your posts make me laugh hard.
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| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/24/00 3:19:18 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
>Also Gerome.. LOL some of your posts make me laugh hard. ROFL =) *bows to gerome* Maybe my sig should be in the 'rotating hearts' pattern as well =) >I feel they have been pretty fair lately. I've always thought da`ice was 'pretty' fair. But what bugers the hell out of me, whilst taking out vox last night, apparently MS received a tell from da`kor that if we failed they would be moving in in 30 minutes. *NOTE IF THIS ISN"T TRUE PLEASE IGNORE IT* I mean, give me a break, when your guild started out, I bet you failed a couple times. By impossing this 'rule' on other guilds, you are merely impeding there growth as a guild. If you can't give them more then one chance at a dragon, how do you expect them to break fear? I digress /em looks what to wear to the formal
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| Ogmuk Administrator (3/24/00 3:46:08 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Quote: Don't flame me if I wrong, I wasn't there yesterday, just writing my (stoopid?) thoughts. I think I know why they would say "You got 30 minutes". When I still was playing EQ on regular basis dragons were becoming reserved. C'mon give me a fookin brake, 5 random people would be waiting in permafrost for 2 hours to get enough man power to beat Vox. Yes we've always been NICE (hmmmm rarely read that on this board) and backed off. But just imagine YOUR guild has 40 members ready to kick Vox' ass BUT there are 5 guys saying they are going to kill Vox. BUT they're waiting for people to log on, UGH. Excuse me, I don't wanna pull a FoH (dragon kill stealing), but reserving dragons by putting a few guild members in a dungeon waiting for people to log on, sucks IMO. Like I said, I was not there yesterday, nor do I know what happend, just writing my thoughts :) I know this probably sounds like a bunch of crap from a Da`Kor member, but imagine its your guild who can't do a plane because 5 members of another guilds are "holding" it till others get online. I remember a recent post of that. Anyways, enuff blah blah for now :)
Edited by Ogmuk at:
3/24/00 3:46:08 pm | |
| Vendrix Global user (3/24/00 3:57:10 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
We stay in POF for exactly one spawn, we are usually in and out in roughly 10 hours. POH, depending on if the Maestro and statis houses in the NW corner are on the menu, has been taking us about 8-12 hours. Last time we killed Inno was a big fiasco with buggy walls and GM crap. They should have gotten a delay of game penalty. In either case, its one spawn. We get in and get out so that others can folow up. I fail to see this same level of courtesy being expressed by some other guilds/people. Probably the same people who wont make a single reply to this thread(wouldnt fit into their 40+ hours of camping). Vendrix | |
Morzinynin
Ardaanien  Global user (3/24/00 5:34:29 pm) Reply  |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
hmm i think a tentative agreement by the guilds who can do pof and poh...to go in....have fun. and get out would be fair and a cool move for everyone. if guild A just broke fear... and its all cleared. BUT theres nobody else around hey i dont see a problem with hanging out there. but as i read more and more posts...farming pof is kinda lame anyway seeing as the loot drops arent really all that great anyway. my first weekend in pof we went in AFTER da`kor/ice clan but we had asked first if we could enter with it being cleared. ended up having just 12 to 15 people in there as it was repopping. so yes it was a tough challenge. considering many inexperianced fear people also. BUT after my 16 hrs were done and it was cleared again i went to sleep.....i later got on and went back in for 16 hours. THAT was farming. and i can honestly say i wont ever do that again. it was a my first weekend in fear though so i was very excited to get the exp in there. and Maeghant dont feel bad for running around pof naked while its cleared, ive done it LOL. i got lots of screenshots and good pof experiance (at least of the terrain). at least now if i get summoned to somewhere i will know how $%^$%$'ed i am by location LOL. the thing is seems many guilds are heading towards a solid communication of dragons and planes. main thing is everyone to be patient and not jump the gun by flaming without knowing FACTS. it sure would be nice to have a server where everyone maybe doesnt get along....but at least works things out and finds the common ground on issues etc.... /em wakes up Morzinynin Ardaanien - members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Sharasali Shadowsoul Unregistered User (3/24/00 6:17:20 pm) Reply |
Repops
Correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt be a repop be the best way to give a person new to planes some experience of what its like with less danger to the group/guild and to themselves? It would also be a good time to show the future pullers, where everything spawns, and give tips on best ways to pull. What do you think? Shara Crazy sk with obssessive tendencies. "They dont call me a Knight of Hate for nothing."
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Kenian
 Global user (3/24/00 8:13:33 pm) Reply  |
Re:
Repops
You know Ogmuk this is the problem faced anywhere on any mature server out there. Yes, I can understand your views on the bad points of 'reserving' dragons and such. About the 5 man there and such. But come to tink of it this way. Back then when the dragons weren't killed that easy and there weren't any single guild/s capable of dropping em easy. When you guys were the first to try the dragons. You guys didn't have to deal with 400+ 46 levle players wanting to kill it too. Basically, if an attempt is failed, you can either 1 logg off and try again later or just keep trying till it's right wo anyone telling you that 'hey, it's my turn' or whatever. And this starts a vicious circle becos once you learn how to do it right it become not that hard anymore. Sure the dragons were beefed up many times since but as I said if you got the right pple and the right classes, more than half the job is completed. It's not the mobs in the game that is the main problem. It's the social aspect of it that is. And this is true for every same server out there. As I said before, the ultimate problem boils down to OVERCROWDING. 2 dragons with spawn time of over a week, 1 PoF, 1 PoH, 1 PoA, KK for 400+ 46 players? What a joke. Well, I dunno what Kunark will bring but I do hope that it will be something good. At least pple will go back to leveling and decovering new lands rahter than be holed up in the same usual places. But, the problem will not go away. In times to come when you have a whole bunch of levle 60 players with just one Kunark the same problems will suffice again. Well, this is a life of a level, item based mmorpg. Seriously, if there were 10 PoFs 10 PoHs 10 dragons around, you think this board will have 1000+ posts? Kenian/Renadiel Edited by Kenian
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| Vendrix Global user (3/24/00 10:25:45 pm) Reply |
Re:
Repops
I personally think Kunark is gonna be a blast. Hell, I get a boner everytime I read the new 51+ spell lists. I do believe some funny things are going to happen in Kunark though, such as... Every person and their mom is gonna make an Iskar Monk/Shaman. Kunark, as a continent, is going to experience overcrowding the likes of which Im sure Verant hasnt tested for. Trains in the new zones are going to be horrible. Lets face it, some people that are high level havent explored a zone in their entire life(its not their fault). When they came to Lower Guk it was already packed and they joined pre-made groups eventually learning the zone. Same thing with Sol B. A large portion of the population doesnt know what its like to be one of 6 people in an entire dungeon(those were the days...). They dont know what its like to send a monk out into the complete unknown to bring back whatever he/she bumps into. There is absolutely no substitution for those experiences. Its my belief that when some of these people hit completely new zones, they arent going to know what to do. Vernat is the only one to blame for that. The lack of high level zones from the start was a major design flaw. Vendrix | |
Tsun
DaiShan  Global user (3/24/00 10:55:08 pm) Reply  |
Re:
Repops
>>Correct me if im wrong, but wouldnt be a repop be the best way to give a person new to planes some experience of what its like with less danger to the group/guild and to themselves? It would also be a good time to show the future pullers, where everything spawns, and give tips on best ways to pull. What do you think?<< Shara, some might think so, I myself, have only been to PoF a couple of times, and have yet to go to PoH (just haven't found a chance to get in with anyone). but, planes, dungeon, whatever...pulling and such, is never the same with "not a full repop" as it is with a full repop. it may help a bit, but until you pull in a full repop you'll never know how to pull in a full repop. mmmm, that word repop almost excites me...does it not sound...seductive? maybe it's just me /em whispers "repop...repop..repop...do i make you horny? well, do i?" god, this nyquil is kickin my ass
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| Verdunae
Global user (3/24/00 11:07:35 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Case in point: A good secondary base camp after zone is cleared some is the Scareling tower. It gives pullers less distance to run, and it allows people to spread out some. Now..think about running there during full repop and finding 4 scarelings ready to stick their happy shiny eyerazzia's up your ass. Remember, they outrun jboots. Other examples come to mind, like draco's agro range, CT's agro range, CT's death touch (a monk who hasn't pulled while CT is there hasn't pulled PoF. end of story.) and other happy little surprises.
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| Kalten Unregistered User (3/25/00 1:21:23 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Ogmuk, I think ablazen was disappointed because da`kor had just finished killing nagafen and i think killed a dragon or two earlier in the week. He just wanted some other people who cant organize as quickly as da`kor to get their chances. A lot of ppl have never even seen a dragon.I dont know what went on so i'll just shut up. What I can say is we had a vox raid today and vendrix was cooperative. Khelder gave him a tell asking if we could have a shot at vox and he told him if you have a decent force there before were done with nagafen go for it. We had about 25ppl.. i guess thats a decent force. Once there though, they didnt plan on taking vox tonight. Didnt feel rushed. Also, he offered to help drag bodies to zone tomorrow if vox goes down. Yes we died unfortunatly =/(damn CH). Not trying to kiss ass here (ill prolly have a flame or two soon for em) just giving a postitive comment where usually negative ones are seen.
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| Tsun
DaiShan Global user (3/25/00 3:08:05 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Guildon said "eunich" on another post.
Edited by Tsun
DaiShan | |
| Ogmuk Administrator (3/25/00 3:36:20 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
I know it may sounds stupid but does guild matter if you got right to kill a dragon or not? Because we've done Vox more times than anyone else we got less right to kill her? Heck, we've given EVERYONE as many tries as they wanted for months long. The first non-Da`Ice Vox went down 2 days ago. Forgive me for my ignorance, just some statistics how I look at it. 10% - 15% (of the 46+ population) is ready to kill Vox but 1% (of the 46+ population) is holding Vox and waiting for people to get online. Given that the 1% never killed Vox only failed so far, but you say they have right to hold her and wait for people to come online while the 10% - 15% should just back off/pick their noses/farm a plane? It is no secret that dragons drop more loot in less time than a plane. That day it did piss me off indeed. If you want to kill a dragon, we (Da`Kor&IceClan) got no problem with it AT ALL. If you got your army (30+ men) there, I back off and wish you luck and hope you get some sweet loot. But when 4 guys tell me "we're doing Vox", "we are just waiting for people to get online", I get -tis no secret- pissed off. Clue of this post: If your army isn't in the zone and we do got our army there, why should we back off? Wait till you got your army complete in 5 hours? *Person A looks at sees the Ancient Cyclops spawned!* Level 50 person A: "Can I have the Ancient Cyclops?" Level 4 person B: "I'm standing here because I'm gonna kill the Ancient Cyclops, just need some people to get online so we can kill him, could take a while, but could u plz back off, plzz?"
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| Guildon
Global user (3/25/00 5:23:32 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Yes but at the same time for fear if there was a failure nobody was gonna bail us out and nobody was going to get our corpses back for us. WE had to either succeed or get lucky with a patch and get the bodies out of an empty zone. Waiting for a patch by the way usually means losing out of at least a couple o0f days of playtime. Guess what if there is no patch planned you'd be completely screwed. My point is this somebody had to take the initial risks bite the bullet and show everyone yes x,y,z could be done. What would happened if we had stated we failed everytime and lied about it. Well Fear would still would have been eventually broken but it would have taken much longer simply because a lot of breakin fear is confidence in the people you go with and confidence that your plan is going to work no matter how many bubbles you lose. Without the orginal Da`Ice breaks everyone would have been still doing the expirimenting to break the planes. How do I know this is true well on some other servers they still haven't gotten tehir act together regarding the dragons much less fear. So this obviously points to the idea that you have to have somebody prove to everyone else that it can be done. Guildon Goldenheart 48 Season Erollsi Marr | |
| Parascol
Global user (3/25/00 9:35:13 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Okay I've been reading over these posts for a few days now and I guess it is time for me to reply. Reguarding Da'Kor and Ice Clan, you guys basically were just here first. I really don't know very many of you very well, so I will keep from judging, flaming, etc... I keep hearing about farming, and using other guilds for entering the planes after they cleared it and not having to break into a full spawn and this and that... Just because people started playing when the game first came out and had a head start over a lot of others, does not make them elite, or better. Just because they were the ones to first learn how to break pof doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened if they weren't around. They were just here first, and doing it first. Allowing them the time to learn it first. About 3 weeks ago, I was with the people who went into pof after Da'Kor. Am I a farmer then? Other than a 10 hour sleep break I was there maybe 30 hours. How much loot did I walk away with? none. Not one piece of armor, not even a rune or a gem. Nothing. But I was having a really, really good time. I had a blast. Some of the most fun I've had in maybe 20 levels. So I'm a farmer because of that? I'm automatically lame because I stayed there for more than 1 pop? The people were lame because we held a list? I swear I bet I saw at least 100 different people turn over there. And we were greedy? Because it wasn't a guild only thing where 1 exclusive guild was there for one pop then gone? We get flamed because we went into an empty zone without taking the challenge and actually breaking into a full spawn? So we didn't earn our gear? I was there from the beginning, and the only thing that was really any different was there was about 15 people able to get to the safe ledge safely. Then after that it was full spawn by the time we got enough to go on with the raid. Okay so, I guess what it boils down to, is we suck cause we didn't have to spend the extra 2 hours to try to get to the safe ledge w/out dying/being seen. Anyhow, I guess all this rambling isn't to keep stirring up old shit, just to point out that this server is maturing a lot. Don't go off and sound like some allmighty asshole because you just happened to start playing this game at an earlier time than a lot and you were able to get the gear/levels needed to start doing dragon raids/planes successfuly. Theres a lot of high level guilds/people going to the planes now consistantly. Some of you people go off and flame about being greedy and this and that and you totaly contradict what you say. It's rediculous how some of you sound. Where is all this anger comming from? Is this really fun to sit and bitch and moan all day long about who gets to slay a dragon? Is it fun to know that your team was the one who ended up slaying the dragon no matter how the other team felt? Even though there are probably equally as many good people on each side? Okay, so this whole long as post was directed to anyone who may have posted here. This part goes to Ogmuk. Your a jerk man. Stop and re-read some of your posts. A lot of them are highly respectable, but the one about the Dragon shit just pisses me off. And it's the kind of post that pretty much just snuffs all your sensable posts. It's not okay to farm repops in PoF but it is okay farm the dragons? First army there and set up gets the dragon? I mean, that's basically what your saying isn't it? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it sounded like to me? That's not farming? It may be an 8 day spawn instead of a 14 hour spawn, but it's still a spawn. You guys (and I say you guys because Ogmuk represents Da'Kor)are asking the server to share the planes, but aren't willing to share the dragon? WTF is that? Since when do youthe create the rules? So, from what I've read, Da'Kor/Ice Clan want guilds/people to leave a zone when it's cleared to let someone else have at it. So why not a dragon? You get to kill it every week cause it takes others a few hours to get people together? AC spawns on a daily basis. That's a really, REALLY poor analogy. This is a Dragon, not AC. So, maybe people will sit in PoF for as long as they like. And maybe people will race to get people to Sol B/permafrost to kill the Dragon first. And if this is the way it keeps going, I either a. Quit playing, or b. Just not deal with it and find other means of happiness. Cause sitting in the planes listening to people bitch and moan isn't fun at all. So, I spoke my mind. I really don't care what anyone else thinks. Ogmuk, I think you made a real ass out of yourself. Please feel free to flame, defend, rebuttle, whatever. I really don't give a fuck. Da'Kor/Ice Clan as a whole... Whatever, more power to ya. Keep having fun. Lots of guilds catching up to you, hope everyone can share. I probably offended some people and I'm sorry, but I feel it was time for me to post to these threads. Another useless bitchfest. Take care all Parascol 49 Paladin of Marr
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Memn  Global user (3/25/00 10:08:07 am) Reply  |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
I think what it all boils down to is this.. We have always given others the opportunity to kill the dragons. If they say we're going to try Voxx we dont go stand in there way. We also spend one day in the planes to give others the chance to get loot as well. Now lately there has been alot of farming going on in Fear and probably Hate. Its been almost a month since we have been in Fear because the same guilds are always there from day to day. If others aren't going to be courteous then there is no reason for us to either. If it comes down to organizing week long raids or whatever we have the means to do so. We have chose not to in the past, but with all the list/reserved/evercamped bullshit that's been going on lately I dont see us standing calmly by the wayside for much longer. Selfishness causes others to become more forceful. I hope everyone can learn common plane courtesy for everyone's sake. I dread the day multiple groups end up camping planes. Memn/Maharett, IceClan | |
| Kalten Unregistered User (3/25/00 10:43:10 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Ogmuk, your right. If people only have 5ppl in a zone and say they have a dragon, thats ridiculous. From what I hear (again I wasnt there), there was a force of ppl ready to kill vox and some member(s) of da`ice told them they had 30 min. If this is true, its just plain wrong. Like I said, this didnt happen to us. You backed off and let us try. Perfectly fair. But if someone gave some sort of time limit.. I mean c'mon. Parascol, cant say I agree with all your points there. The main idea behind "farming" deals with staying large amounts of time in fear not giving others chances. We DO have a chance at the dragons. I got a chance at one yesterday. With people in fear ALL weekend there is no chance at all. Farming is a name given to people who zone into fear without risking their life one bit in the break. You say so what if we didnt take the extra 2 hours to breakin. Umm, how many times have you broken in? Maybe when you did, it just went flawless but a full breakin can really be a bitch and 2 hours wouldn't do it. If its a failure, itll be a LOT longer than that to get bodies out. Just imagine you tried different methods for months on breaking fear and died a zillion times and then people start getting the same stuff after 0 effort...This is the some of the BEST armor in the game and when people can get it without no risk of danger and no effort that isnt right. I was pissed similar to you but you gotta look at both sides of the story. Also, I think the majority of us agree now. Farming fear isnt right. Zoning in w/out breaking to stay for hours on end isnt right. I think if we all do agree on this it will make the server much better. I agree, It sucks that they can do things better than us cause the founding fathers of da`ice were lvl 50 long before the rest of us. Now they can beat us to the punch and do things better. You cannot blame this on them though. Imagine if you were in their situation. It may suck but thats the game. There arent enough things to do for all the high lvl people. Maybe you should send your flame over to verant. I mean thats what it boils down to. There arent enough things for all of us to kill. They paid their dues so you cant flame them for killing stuff. How can you farm a dragon? I really dont see how you can compare that to a plane. You cant spend endless hours killing a dragon over and over with no effort. If they can beat the rest of the server there is that farming? I can try to imagine how you da`kor feel, but also imagine if you were playing the game and couldnt get a shot at a dragon cause they go down just too fast. Just imagine being us aswell. I think every once and awhile maybe they should let the dragons sit a couple days to let others get a crack yes.. I mean just because you CAN do dragons faster than anyone else doesnt mean you have to. Especially when its your 3rd one of the week or something like that. I wouldnt call that farming but it is hogging them a bit and somewhat greedy in my eyes. Doing both dragons one after another.. let someone else get a shot. We do need to share em around a little. If it sits for a day or so.. be my guest. Just 2 dragons in a row while everyone else gets none. Feel free to flame me on this issue if you disagree. It is really hard for us in non UBER guilds to organize a large dragon force. But I am not gonna flame them cause its not really wrong if they can get there organized before anyone else. We do have a fair shot at the dragon, therefore it isnt farming or wrong parascol. It also has no connection to the issues dealing to the planes in my opinion. Btw when does the expansion come out? We really need it.
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| Ogmuk Administrator (3/25/00 10:56:42 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Quote: Personally I call each raid, except for PoA, a farm raid. Since there is nearly no challenge. Quote: It's called "bad luck" happend to me alot too. Gotta live with it. Quote: Ugh, I know! :\ Quote: Quote me where I said "its not okay the farm PoF". EQ = farm, believe it or not. Your character cannot advance without getting loot. You cannot get *good* loot without camping the same MOB, which is farming, IMO. Plus explain me how you can farm dragons? Farm = camp a repop. Dragons do not repop for more than a week. How can you farm a week spawn? Though one... I have most respect for any person/guild who can farm a dragon/God. Quote: Ugh, so many questions. Like I said, you cannot farm a 8 days spawn, unless you tell me a secret way to let the zone crash of course. First who gets his army there has right to kill it yes, unless of course reserving planes and dragons is cool with everyone. Saw alot of bitching that many pages back in this forum. Why should I not enter PoF, because there are 2 guys sitting at the gate who want to do PoF but they don't got the people for it. Should our 40+ men back off because these 3 Cyndreela campers would like to do PoF but they don't got the men? Not likely. Quote: Hehe, never said that. Gotta hate it when people make up stuff :o Quote: LOL this is exactly where you got it wrong. Read my posts again please before making your own totally wrong analogy. I never met you in game, how can you speak for us? Like I posted in a few posts back, we've always given people the chance to do dragons, (people never post that on the board, duh) we've given them months to try without interfering, the first non Da`Kor - IceClan Vox went down 2 days ago. Quote: Exactly, and the AC only takes 1 instead of 25+ level 50 to kill it too. Lets say 4 AC can spawn in 1 day. 4 * 8 (days) makes 32... 32 people needed to kill Vox.. Thought my quote -not analogy- made sense :) Quote: You write a post of 4956 characters to reply to me, but you don't give a fuck? Heh. :) Ugh, enuff already. 40+ men army arrives at Cyndreela gate. 3 Cyndreela campers: "where u guyz think ur goin?" 40+ men army: "Gonna give CT some spanking" 3 Cyndreela campers: "not likely, we were here first" 40+ men army: "Huh? You guys died or gated out of fear?" 3 Cyndreela campers: "nope, just waiting for people to get online.. but hey, WE were here first, so back _FUCKING_ off! PoF is ours!"
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| Vendrix Global user (3/25/00 12:30:50 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
As I stated in my first post... Farming to me isnt so much when you go is as it is how long you stay. If you wanna follow up our raid to learn the way to the safe ledge, thats smart thinking. All I ask is that you display the same degree of courtesy that we've been folowing for months now. Stay for a spawn and head out, give everyone else a chance. If it keeps getting to the point where Guild A breaks the zone then Guild B farms it for the next 3 days, I WILL find a way to put a stop to that. Whether it be waiting for the respawn before leaving or handing the zone off to another guild that I know will folow the trend, we can make that happen. All Im asking for is everyone to share. I have yet to turn down a request by someone for a shot at a dragon/respawn. I may set up some sorta of contingent(read: raid size force in place), but I will never say "get out of our way". If you think we arent being patient, like Memn said, the last time we were in POF was about a month ago. We all learned this is Kindergarten. If we have to share, then everyone does. Vendrix | |
| Morzinynin
Ardaanien Global user (3/25/00 2:39:16 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
damnit to hell, Ogmuk wont give me back my blue crayon. can someone PLEASE tell me where he keeps his Pokemon lunchbox? i KNOW its in there damnit. /shout MOM!!!!! seriously. i agree with Ven'. for "sharing" to work the majority has to follow it. otherwise it gets abused, and i think thats what vend' is referring to. Morzinynin Ardaanien - members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Tsun
DaiShan Global user (3/25/00 3:20:03 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
>>As I stated in my first post... Farming to me isnt so much when you go is as it is how long you stay. If you wanna follow up our raid to learn the way to the safe ledge, thats smart thinking. All I ask is that you display the same degree of courtesy that we've been folowing for months now. Stay for a spawn and head out, give everyone else a chance<< can't agree more with Vendrix on this 1. maybe not breaking in isnt as difficult (no maybe to it), but even so...whether you go in after it's already broken, or whether you break it yoursself...do a 1 round of spawns, and leave it for someone else. i agree with Vendrix that farming isnt really going in after it's broken, its STAYING for more than 1 round of spawns.
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| Morzinynin
Ardaanien Global user (3/25/00 3:53:47 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
it would be SO much easier FOR ALL if any guild in plane of fear was in one round of spawns. ....each other guild would see guild A in pof and know ok cool in X amount of time they will be done. we can plan..... and if your guild A already there you get your spawns, and then you know HEY when we leave guild B comes in...we know if we happen to be playing tomorrow night guild B will have gotten next pop so we can go in again for next one. Morzinynin Ardaanien - members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Parascol
Global user (3/25/00 6:05:23 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Sure you can farm a dragon, just instead of staying there so many hours straight, you just go kill the damn thing over and over on a weekly/server crash basis. I bet the 1% of non Da'Kor sucessful dragon raids would be a lot better if they didn't kill him right away every time they spawned. Kalten, I agree that it's shitty to hog a plane for 3 days straight or how ever long. You missed my point, we didn't really do that. We brought in a lot of other guilds. There was a lot of people involved. Not just one guild. At one point guild A seemed to have control, the guild B had control. It was like a domino effect. A lot of different people made it that weekened. No, not the all of the hundreds of level 46+ were able to make it that weekened, how would that ever be possible? Basically, I was there for 1 full pop, gone for the next and then there for another full pop. See where I'm getting at? Nope, no ones fault that they hit 50 first and yes, I totally agree that Verant really screwed up with over population and lack of high level zones. I have posted to their boards as well. HAHAHAHA I posted to these boards and now I'm bitching as well. It's probably pretty safe to assume that this kind of thing will never stop on E Marr. LoL Ogmuk decide what is wright or wrong already, you keep contradicting yourself. Parascol
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| Morzinynin
Ardaanien Global user (3/25/00 6:27:19 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Para' cant you see that most of these people are now TALKING abotu ways to avoid these "issues" that come up? most of us have valid points for and against many things. but the fact is at least its being discussed. ive seen a lot of good changes happen of late. as long as "our" mistakes dont happen over and over then something is being done. most of these people i chat with on these boards ive never even met in game, but i gotta say even the people i dont agree with or cant stand on the boards...at least they care enough to read into everything and post their opinions..however stupid they are to not agree with me. =oP Morzinynin Ardaanien - members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Sharasali Shadowsoul Unregistered User (3/25/00 6:34:10 pm) Reply |
Dragon
farming
Me: Soooo, what are you doing when the servers come up. Da`kor Member: Prolly gonna kill Vox as soon as ppl come on. Me: Again? but you killed him yesterday when the servers went down. Da`kor Member: Yes, and they want to kill him again. Apart from the wording that conversation did happen. Guys and Gals, is that not dragon farming, seems to be that way to me. Shara Crazy sk with Obssessive tendencies. "They dont call me a Knight of Hate for nothing." PS. It was a little while back though. Ill give ya that much.
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| Tsun
DaiShan Global user (3/25/00 7:16:15 pm) Reply |
Re: Dragon
farming
Shara, you can't blame a guild for being organized... the point is, Da/Ice are very organized, server goes down: ok, let's get there and kill this dragon...you think it takes em long? no, they're organized. most other guilds have a longer time to get people to go, and get there and get ready. plain and simple, they know wtf they're doing and they do it smoothly and timely.
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| Mitch
The Blonde Monk Global user (3/25/00 9:37:52 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Grrrr.....First Oggy Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've always thought da`ice was 'pretty' fair. But what bugers the hell out of me, whilst taking out vox last night, apparently MS received a tell from da`kor that if we failed they would be moving in in 30 minutes. *NOTE IF THIS ISN"T TRUE PLEASE IGNORE IT* I mean, give me a break, when your guild started out, I bet you failed a couple times. By impossing this 'rule' on other guilds, you are merely impeding there growth as a guild. If you can't give them more then one chance at a dragon, how do you expect them to break fear? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /em forces herself to spit out the words This is true actually, Vendrix was there when we attempted Vox and specifically said Da'Kor would NOT be jumping all over Vox in 30 minutes (he did cause me severe lag though and i reprimanded him for this
./em chokes on the next bit I also have to say that Vendrix shared some advice with me when i was pulling on Vox yesterday and actually gave me a couple of hints!!..of course the only reason I account this act of kindness is because I know Da'Kor will pin him to the rack and play football with his testicles for breaking the sacred seals of Da'Kor wisdom
/em flames Vendrix (well you said you liked it Ven) Also someone in this thread somewhere mentioned Da'Kor in a bad way and i feel duty bound to warn them that they will shortly find their credit cards cancelled, their car being repoed and their pet cat pinned to the front door in a gruesome manner, you have been warned!! Mitch Da'Stirrer Proud Senior Bitch in the Ogmuk, Kzzern, Vendrix & Mitch debating society ps Thanks for the res today Ven but please stop being nice, its starting to get to me
pps And yes I did say 3 nice things about Vendrix, and YES it did kill me
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| Mitch
The Blonde Monk Global user (3/25/00 9:43:22 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Quote : ###################################### ''So, I spoke my mind. I really don't care what anyone else thinks. Ogmuk, I think you made a real ass out of yourself. Please feel free to flame, defend, rebuttle, whatever. I really don't give a fuck. Da'Kor/Ice Clan as a whole... Whatever, more power to ya. Keep having fun. Lots of guilds catching up to you, hope everyone can share. I probably offended some people and I'm sorry, but I feel it was time for me to post to these threads. Another useless bitchfest. Take care all Parascol 49 Paladin of Marr ########################################### I like this guy, he has big balls 
Mitch
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| Mitch
The Blonde Monk Global user (3/25/00 9:46:29 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
From Oggy : ################################################### You write a post of 4956 characters to reply to me, but you don't give a fuck? Heh.
################################################### You counted the characters!!!!!! roflmao Mitch
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| Sharasali Shadowsoul Unregistered User (3/25/00 10:32:55 pm) Reply |
Organisation
Compared to any other mob in the game, dragons give the greatest amount of loot in the shortest amount of hours put into the game. Organisation has jack to do with what i said. They just wanted to kill the dragon to get "phat l00t", because it had respawned. You cant deny that. Im not flaming, because im not trying to be mean, a bitch or nasty. Its just a fact of what happened. Shara Crazy sk with obssessive tendencies. "They dont call me a Knight of Hate for nothing."
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| Morzinynin
Ardaanien Global user (3/26/00 1:05:25 am) Reply |
Re:
Organisation
i wouldnt call it farming, id call it a group rushing to a great spot trying to beat everyone else there....just like...everyone else. the fact is they are organized enough to do it quickly. BUT im quite sure if someone posted HEY we wanna try Vox when servers come back up....if something was planned , from what i know of dakor/ice they wouldnt rush in and "play nice rules" on it....now i think like anyone they would hover around just in case, but cant fault anyone for this. and secondly "farming" is not some evil unholy act that people do, just that "farming" some places would just suck being as some could do it so effectively it would be a monopoly..and that..would suck. Morzinynin Ardaanien - members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Vendrix Global user (3/26/00 2:03:37 am) Reply |
Re:
Organisation
Actually Sharasali, we killed the Dragon(s) because both the easy planes were taken and we arent quite ready to fork over 5K plat in Plane of Sky again. Give us something else to do and we're all over it. As a matter of fact, if you dont want me on the dragons then name a time for the arena and I'll kill you. Until then, blame Verant... not us =) Vendrix | |
| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/26/00 2:20:13 am) Reply |
Re:
Organisation
Ogmuk pointed out 1 key factor earlier, and that is: "too advance your character, you gotta 'farm' items." Bleh. I'm looking forward to the expansion, but it's gonna be no different. People are gonna be 60within the month of the expansion, and basically you'll just be killing that same ubber mob with a different name over there head. "Hail A Yellow Dragon" I'll take shadowbane as a quick example of why this game has much more of a potential 'fun factor': 1) Loot is not 'all importnant' 2) EXP is gained by killing PVP players 3) THe world is TRULY constently changing, and the balance of powers will be constinently changing. (i don't count kithicor being changed to a 30+ zone a 'constently chaging' world.) Bleh...expansion comes out, everyone gets lvl 60, and instead of farming for valorium, i'm gonna be farming for wind-etched armor! what fun!
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| Chukzombi
Global user (3/26/00 2:56:49 am) Reply |
Re:
Organisation
ok this is what i know first hand. almost nobody comes to permafrost ever! i spend alot of time there camping and exploring the secret tunnels under the dungeons. i get my cutey enc to do the exploring . she is naked lv 13 and so cute a Ice giant would die instantly if he saw her. Vox is almost always up. i do see people TRY and beat her sometimes. haha but a few hours later i usually see 30 naked ppl running around freezing their asses off, talking about getting their corpses. if Da`Kor/Ice Clan wanna come play with the ice princess its in their right. so when a lone alchemist room camper sees them triumph over her fall. they immediately call them campers/farmers hell get organized get your gear and keep your eyes open. another thing to watch for is the bullshit stalling. i was on a few FG only raids that took so long the FGs started repopping as we were getting to rokyl. i was lucky enough to be allowed to tag along on a Da`Kor/Ice Clan Nagafen raid once. because the previous night 50+ of us lemmings tried to kill naggy totally unprepared. i died like 5 times and i wanted some payback. id say from Lava beetles to Nagafen took 2 hours total for Da`Ice. i wouldnt have believed it if i didnt see it with my own eyes. loot bitching is another reason why some raids take so long. everyone wants a random in everything even stuff they cant get any use for. the Da`Ice raid i was in was very efficient. mob goes down, mob loads X item . mob loot gets randomed to X people only . team advances. just a thought . Chukzombi Astrocreep | |
| Ogmuk Administrator (3/26/00 3:26:26 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Parascol: Quote: Ahhh so it's kinda like farming Gods? We must rock if we can farm Dragons and Gods. Anyways, farming dragons is impossible, you're ignoring the facts. If there are 2 gods (not counting PoA Dojorn), 3 Dragons, how can we FARM 'em? Everyone has equal chances to kill a dragon or God. You just NEED to be FAST with getting your army together.. But go ahead, ignore the facts... Quote: Doh, you should read my posts just once. We've given people months to try. For example, when PoA opened all dragons were up weeks long. Nobody even tried to harm 'em. We done alot of PoF and PoH raids while at least 2 dragons were up.. rarely people attempted to kill a dragon BUT they've got many, many chances. Of course you didn't know that. Try to read the posts.. just once.. Quote: I know :\ Sharasali Shadowsoul: Quote: Tsun replied to it as I would: Quote: Fact is that you cannot farm a dragon or god, like I just explained, everyone has equal chances. Usually we can get the army together quite fast, bad luck for you. There are 2 more Gods and 2 more dragon. If you still cannot get an army together we (50+ players) aren't going to bore us in a plane with farming a couple of MOBs, either we will kill the another dragon or 1 of those 2 gods. Mitch: Quote: Silent you! *cancels Mitch 3rd credit card* Quote: Actually I did! hehe well not me, software did it for me hehe :) */me is bored, but not that bored :)* Sharasali Shadowsoul: Quote: Uhm yeah that's exactly what I said earlier in this thread :) Thanks for repeating hehe. Quote: Organisation is where it's all about, when we enter a dungeon, people give us angry tells because they "planned" Vox or Nagafen today. How can you plan a server crash anyways? :o But if they can't get the army together, we're suddenly the bad guys? If we can't get the army together (yes it happends to us too) we aren't gonna send people angry tells, are we? Anyways, enuff blah blah for now :) Of course I cannot close my post without the hated quotes: Army: "Ready! Pull the Ice Giants!" Level 30 Ice Goblin Camper00: "Can I join u guyz?" Army: "Err you are level 30!" Level 30 Ice Goblin Camper00: "So what? I was here first" Level 30 Ice Goblin Camper00: "Im gonna petition, u r kill stealing vox of me"
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| Kzzern
Global user (3/26/00 10:51:12 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
*edited out* My post hurt some people.. and I never intended that.. to those, I'm truly sorry. kzz
Edited by Kzzern
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| Mitch
The Blonde Monk Global user (3/26/00 6:19:45 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
hmmmm. ################################################ Instead, put together your crew (like MS and others do), make sure nobody's on the dragon, and whack it(the dragon i mean). kzz ################################################ Damn you Kzzern that last bit got me off guard and the coffee went down my nose and all over my keyboard!! Mitch Da'Messy
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| Morzinynin
Ardaanien Global user (3/26/00 10:33:45 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
people fail to see simple logic someti..well...all the time. da`kor/ice clan......first few tries were tough.....wow if we do this...and do that....bam. they grew into a solid fighting team and LEARNED (trial and error + common sense) the do's and dont's of dragons, planes etc. all the rest of us.....follow....what has been done. its much easier, why? because people hear what has been tried. thats not a BAD thing, but put yourself in the shoes of someone who took the risks when none had, and sorta "paved" the way for everyone else. many issues they now dislike ...they have very good reason for it. some guilds are attempting (and successfully) to make their own way...MS has..some failures , but live and learn. yet they are now at a point they can get the thrill of a dragon and know they do have a shot at winning, and if they dont ...why? where was our mistake? etc..... theres more out there like MS at the same stage of things. we all get in game..for hours and hours...and let our emotions get the best of us. but when you step out and look at all the facts, most "bullshit" things that happen really arent the way we thought. some from our guild, went and tried Vox just 2 days ago. it was a misc. raid. they got Vox down to 20% and she got her complete heal off. ok Vox 1 Misc group 0. but it was a shot at it and from what i hear everyone had a blast. lastly in my book of incoherant nonsense... phat l00t. does NOT make you a great player....give a stupid player great loot and they dont know how to use it to its fullest. but give a player who knows how to play their class with their eyes closed.they are going to be much much stronger. anyone who thinks LOOT makes you a suddenly great player...i will fight naked with pet out...you get all your kewl l00t and lets duel 5 times best of 5. and lets see how GRAND you suddenly are. if your not already a good player...youll lose. ask yourself..do you feel..lucky? Morzinynin Ardaanien - members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Kalten Unregistered User (3/26/00 11:15:59 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
I think pretty much the same ideas are being said. You cant FARM a dragon. At least now how we have been talking about the word farm. Say they hog dragons perhaps but thats not farming. Come to think of it, its not that hard to get there before da`kor. I was watching this the other night when we tried vox. It took them hours after the server came up before they could even start on nag. We started arriving in perma like 2 hours before they even killed nag. And this wasnt really even a single guild event where its even easier to organize. Just was talking to cuchulain and we decided lets try vox. Talked about it for an hour, started on a list, told people haul ass to perma. It really isnt that hard to get to 1 of the dragons. By the time vendrix got to perma I think he pretty much agreed we had a good force organized. As to a ton of different people getting rotated into the planes parascol. That might be true but a lot of people abuse this and stay there for a disgusting amount of time. Maybe there isnt a way around this besides everyone cooperating and only go to a plane if they are in a break. And even then only stay for a spawn or god kill.
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| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/26/00 1:26:58 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Quote: I agree planar gear isn't supposed to be on every person. But 'what does it mean' is another question all together. To me, planar gear means VERY little, now, before, and in the future. At the present, it simpy means i've been able to sit for 40hrs+ in fear, farming 5straight repopos ( in most cases atleast) In the past, it meant i was able be power level to lvl 50, and be of the first lvl 50's on the server (just my opinion). In the future, bleh, probably will mean even less. Quote: This itself is a little contradictory, as it is undoubtable that your 'perceived skills' increase as your equipment does. IE// if x-person is looking at you, and sees a warrior soloing a SG (with full indocilite), and then see's another warrior fail at a SG (wihtout indocilite), this x-person will perceive the indocilite wearing warrior to have more skills then the latter. Well, said and done, I think 'skills' required in EQ are limited. There's a lot of planning that goes into doing a dragon/breakin, but when you get done with the planning, i'm willing to bet as a Paladin, i could pass the keyboard over to my cousin, and tell him what to do just as well as i myself can do it =) PVP games are 'the only' real test of Skill. You never need the best equipment, but what you do need is: 1) quick thinking 2) quick reaction time. 3) an idea of your oponents strengths/weakeness (in a PVP game, these are continually changing).
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| Ogmuk Administrator (3/26/00 1:44:47 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Quote: And a fast internet connection! :\ Took me 30 friggin minutes of tries to load this thread :o They've planned ADSL in the area when shadowbane gets released though, hope I get lucky :)
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| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/26/00 2:01:47 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
aye =) DSL is nice. You know what part of the problem is, it's people with those BIG signatures *cough cough*. Heck, being in the web-design business, I try to maintain the 'first' page of the website between 50-70k including all graphics. Some signatures are bigger then this =)
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| Sharasali Shadowsoul Unregistered User (3/26/00 2:29:50 pm) Reply |
Farming
Dragons
Look, I already said that it was a little bit back alright? And actually it is quite easy to farm dragons...though if anyone did it that way id be very suprised...because thats just really stupid. All you would need is the exact time/date it died, and the length of time to repop and just make sure you get down there before it repops, thats all. Can you imgaine the possibility of catching Vox without any buffs? "Come to think of it, its not that hard to get there before da`kor. I was watching this the other night when we tried vox. It took them hours after the server came up before they could even start on nag. We started arriving in perma like 2 hours before they even killed nag." Explain that statement please. Because it sounds like they were gonna take both dragons. I dont believe thats really the case. Because if it was, then they would have no leg to stand on, as that is dragon farming pure and simple. As to the definition of farming, you guys that farming dragons is different to farming planes. Well, duh. The difference is that mobs on plane all drop something of use to someone. Where as the dragon is a single mob. In Lower Guk, the definition of a farmer is someone or someones who camp multiple rooms, killing the specials as they spawn. Tell me exactly how that is different from a dragon? "some from our guild, went and tried Vox just 2 days ago. it was a misc. raid. they got Vox down to 20% and she got her complete heal off. ok Vox 1 Misc group 0. but it was a shot at it and from what i hear everyone had a blast." We charged CT when we knew it was possibly a suicide attack. Did we bitch that we had lost xps for nothing? No, we all were wowing about how fun it had been. "you get all your kewl l00t and lets duel 5 times best of 5. and lets see how GRAND you suddenly are. " You'd die horribly. None of your spells would effect me, and id just harm touch you and finish of your hps and then you'd have no pet -shrug- dont duel sks, its bad for you. This isnt bragging, because im not that great a dueller myself. But i know the limitations of my class. Loot does effect a player, even if they are the worst at using that class. For example, higher stats, higher resists. Why do you think there are so many high lvl idiots out there on our server? Especially quite a few necros and druids. And as for the loot. How would you actually like such high end loot spread over the server? So that Da`kor and Ice Clan have all the best gear, and that the others have less? Or would you prefer everyone to have good items (well the ppl who earn them that is). Im not saying that Da`kor and Ice Clan dont deserve what they have got, because they have. The point is, that the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer (in relation to Da`kor and Ice Clan). Its a fair statement dont you agree? For every item, wether normal/plane/dragon that someone gets, makes them stronger, more useful to themselves, their group and their guild. All im saying is that you shouldnt go after something juest because its there. Do you go after PoF just because its been empty for 10 hours? No, not according to your own statements, so why go after a dragon just because its there? "ask yourself..do you feel..lucky?" No, i never feel lucky. Ask the people who know me in Lower Guk how "Lucky" i am. "You can cry on boards about how we're supposedly farming dragons, but that's just plain silly." Tell me, when exactly did i cry about you being a dragon farmer? You just insulted me by calling me a cry baby without due cause. And all i did was that i showed people one of your guildmates own words, on a subject being discussed in an attempt to show that your motivations arent so "pure" (cant think of a better word so it'll have to do). Myself, I actually have no problem with you guys going into Perma or solb to take down the dragons. Your taking the risk, you get the fun, you get the rewards. I just think being fair to everyone is a lot more satisfying than getting myself more powerful. I realise that Da`kor and Ice Clan are in difficult situations. You guys are supposed to be the best, some people look up to. You guys usually did everything first before anyone else and are in the spotlight a lot, and hense subject to a lot of criticism. I know you guys have been doing some holding back, but your attitude is still a little off towards us "lesser mortals" (love that phrase). "Instead, put together your crew (like MS and others do), make sure nobody's on the dragon, and whack it(the dragon i mean)." Because i know im bossy, and i actually operate more effectively on my own, ranging out. Not many people can make it from deadside to liveside in lower guk in under 2 minutes by themselves, without causing a train. Slightly bragging I guess, but very true. I much prefer not to do the organisation myself, because i hate disappointing people if:- a) have to tell them no b) we fail c) we die from my fault "I used to be proud of my planar gear... but of late I've become content with the fact that my skills are the only thing that means anything anymore, and equipment symbolizes nothing except for better stats." All i think f any plane gear ive got, is that its there to increase my threat level to monsters, so that i can be more useful to my group and more dangerous to the monsters. Just because item x increases my str by y amount, doesnt mean that ive become a better player or a better person. In fact its likely to make a worse person
"Organisation is where it's all about, when we enter a dungeon, people give us angry tells because they "planned" Vox or Nagafen today. " Its called frustration. If it was your first dragon raid, and the so called big bad guild came in and moved in before you because the last 4people hadnt got there yet, you'd be upset to. And dont give me that "deal with it" crap, because you guys sure as hell wouldnt. Oh well, im rambling and starting to bitch. Im gonna stop. Just dont flame me, or ill start being mean. Shara Crazy sk with obssessive tendencies. "They dont call me a Knight of Hate for nothing." PS. "You cant understand a man, till youve walked a mile in their mocassins." Be us for a change. PSS. Ugh, i hate how my posts come out sometimes.
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| Morzinynin
Ardaanien Global user (3/26/00 2:42:30 pm) Reply |
Re: Farming
Dragons
i love DSL =oP ::connecting at 1119kbps:: ahhh the internet is such simple pointing and clicking, i cant remember using my old 56k modem LOL..well...i went to my cousins house and cried when i went to "dial up"..AHHHHH!!!!! Morzinynin Ardaanien - members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Kalten Unregistered User (3/26/00 6:52:51 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
"Its called frustration. If it was your first dragon raid, and the so called big bad guild came in and moved in before you because the last 4people hadnt got there yet, you'd be upset to." Shar statements like this w/out facts really kill your credibility. You have done this on a couple of your posts recently. I'd really start trying to support statements with facts. We had about 25ppl in the zone and da`ice backed off of vox. We raided with like 40+ people. As for the richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer statement.. Before ONLY da`kor, iceclan, tarsis(?)(dont know much bout that guild) did planes and dragons. Now there are people who have just hit lvl 46-50 and have nearly full planar gear. Some without ever breaking fear aswell. I really wouldnt say they are getting richer and us poorer. Da`ice was the only guild to ever kill vox. Now Midnight Sojourn took her down. How can they get richer at a faster rate when the dragon only they killed was killed by someone else? Just curious about that richer getting richer poorer getting poorer statement. Also, some of these members have been 50 a long time before many of us and people have nearly the same gear... As to farming dragons, already posted my thoughts 2 times on this thread. Not gonna do it again.
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| Kzzern
Global user (3/26/00 9:09:55 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Sorry if you felt insulted about the crying comment Sharasali, it wasn't directed at you alone, and it certainly wasn't meant to be an insult. Apologies. Also, Vendrix is a very good friend, but not a guildmate. And Ablazen, as often as you are right about these things, this time, I have to completely disagree with you. Personal playing skill is a _huge_ factor, and IMO the primary reason da/ice/friends can do what they do, secondary only perhaps to overall raid strategy. They have the most impressive collection of the most badass asskickers on the server - bar none. And yes, a lot of that skill comes from experience, but that doesn't change the fact that skill makes a huge difference. kzz
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| Cattie
Luv Global user (3/26/00 10:10:36 pm) Reply  |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
On Plane farming, and plane farmers... I spoke to one person who was in PoF farming, and what he basically said to me was follow: "We need to farm Plane armor so we can do plane of sky" Isn't this a huge load of crap? if they can't break a plane to get armor, how the **** do they think they gonna stand once chance in sky? On Dragons... Most ppl see us go kill a dragon, and start to flame away, but they also fail to see when a dragon is up, there has been many many occasions when Dragons been up and not a single on have even tried to scratch them. Example 1: we stayed in Sky for 1 week, this has happened twice, Dragons untouched. Example 2: we been in a Plane(for around 8-10 hours) and the Dragons been up, they been untouched. then we go down from planes, and say "hey Dragons still up, lets kill em", and we do, then get flamed for not letting other ppl try. And there also been occasion, several actually when we backed away to let other guild try to kill them, has anyone said thank you or anything to us, nope. the next day(if they failed) we go and kill the Dragon and get flamed yet again for it. /Cattie Luv | |
| Morzinynin
Ardaanien Global user (3/26/00 10:50:34 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
omg i hate to agree with Cattie...so for the record im going to disagree with her entire post, but off the record im gonna agree. so im disagreeing OMG Cat' thats the biggest buncha horse shit ive seen posted yet on these boards!! off the record..well yeah as most of us start to dig into things most realize past mistakes and misunderstandings. and whoever said they need to farm pof to do pos...uh....MORON? find an earlier post in which i stated every stupid person should have to wear a "stupid sticker". would save so much confusion. Morzinynin Ardaanien - http://members.xoom.com/Morzinynin - "chaos is the ultimate riddle" | |
| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/26/00 11:41:21 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Quote: Hm...i never knew i was ever right about anything =) just post my opinions straight up usually. Quote: I agree there is some degree of 'personal playing skill', but i disagree that it is huge. There are some classes which definately require more skills/patience then others: enchanters, monks, and clerics come to mind. However I ask you this, in a nagafen-slaying attempt with 4groups (24 people total) if you were to replace x-warrior in da`kor, with lets say gopher (and provide him with information and directions about what to do), would there be much of a difference? I don't think so. Then, lets take something where i truly think 'skill' is the prime determinent of overall success: a soccer game. If you were to replace x-forward of a soccergame, with a 'joe-shmo' (and provide him with information and directions about what to do), do you think you're team would score as many points? I definately think they would score less. I view da`kor/ice clan's success as a series of several factors: 1) They were able to reach 50 before many others (equated to being able to play more/day). THis may not be true in some cases, but I bet most of Da`kor/ice clan was 50 before most of Midnight Sojourn/Salvation/x-guild-here had reached 50. 2) They have good leaders. 3) They are (atleast ice clan is) a group of good friends, with a history. 4) They are able to plan ahead. 5) Most Dakor plays for several hours a day. Heck, this is well symbolized by the fact that after 30 minutes a dragon is up, da`kor is able to gather enough people to take it down. I'm willing to bet there are some guilds out there which if they could play x-hours per day from release of the game, would be in da`kor/ice clans position now. Basically, I view any guilds success in Everquest as 'being at the right place at the right time'. Of course there are some players who don't know what the fook to do, but the variance of skills in Everquest is minimal (eek stat test tommorrow).
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| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/26/00 11:49:07 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
just like to post why i think skill is a much bigger factor in PVP then non pvp: non-pvp environment (i.e// Everquest): - the mobs you fight NEVER change (i.e// sure you can't stun vox anymore, but overall, they change very little). - the mobs you fight can't adapt to a situation. I.E// lets say 'nagafen' was a human controlled player. In the case of a raid against nagafen, he would immediately target the clerics and kill them all. This simply can't happen in PCvs NPC enviornments. Nagafen (as a NPC), can't distinguish between classes, while a 'real player' (i.e// in a PVP enviornmet) would be able too. in-pvp enviornments: - the people you fight constently change (i.e// they aquire more knowledge, they aquire better equipment, and they require new friends and allies). - the 'fight' itself is constently changing and adapting. In everquest, you go in before hand with a plan, and you know that there is a 99% that the dragon you faced last time, is the same this time, with no changes at all.
Edited by Ablazen
Holysword | |
| Cattie
Luv Global user (3/27/00 2:20:08 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
so you honestly think that all warriors are equal?, all necros are equal? all druid are just as good? sorry to burst your bubble. i seen warriors(L50 ones) who tought all they would do is target mob, then hit Auto-Attack, and sit back and relax, and if you think this is all we do, then your dead wrong. I also met a druid who at L44 still tought root was better then snare, and L50 SK's without the knowlegde their darkness spells had a snare function. Wizards who on each mob goes from fm to oom in 5 secs flat. Skills do matter, and they matter alot, it's about knowing when to cast what, what to tank, who to target, when to hit taunt, when to bash, when to cast heals. if you don't think it takes skills from each player to clear the starting houses in Plane of Hate with 12 ppl, where 2 sk's are doing the pulling, and taking 2 mobs at once. it doesn't take skills to clear the Ghoul Lord room with 1 monk, 1 warrior and 1 cleric, while the lord is spawned. it doesn't take skills to kill Cazic Thule with 21ppl and having both Dread and Terror in the fight. Sorry ablazen, but your dead wrong, each of us knows how to play our classes, and play them in coordinace with each other, this is skills. /Cattie Luv | |
| Kzzern
Global user (3/27/00 2:29:38 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Actually, yes, I do think it would make a big difference if you picked out a player at a da/ice/friends dragon raid and replaced him/her with a random 50th level of the same class. In fact, if I didn't know them, I'd probably leave.
And it's funny that you say "(and provide him with information and directions about what to do)"... first, knowing "what to do" is what makes a skilled player, and second, you can't just tell ppl "what to do." It takes brains, experience, and desire to learn "what to do." It can't be spoonfed. "Basically, I view any guilds success in Everquest as 'being at the right place at the right time'" Uh.. so.. how would you explain guilds like Legacy of Steel on Nameless, a server that's months younger than ours? Yea, the ones that have 2 FAs so far. They knew how to play before Nameless was started, so they _put_ themselves in the right place at the right time. Their success is a prime example of why skill matters, and sorry bro, it ain't just luck o' the draw. Lots of people were 50 before most of da`kor, lots of people were 50 before most of ice clan, and lots of high-level guilds existed before both. I know because I had a chance to play with and/or observe most of them at some point. A lot of those people play as much or more than da/ice/friends. A lot of them have also never seen a plane. "the variance of skills in Everquest is minimal" Ok this is just ridiculous Ablazen. Some people know how to play, and some just don't. It can be due to a difference of playing time, or a difference in the level of caring, or whatever. Names are starting to pop up in my head. Azakar. Take any 50 nec and replace Azakar with him. You just lost like 4 men. No shit. Vendrix. Take a random 50 cleric and replace Vendrix with him. You just settled for a crappy druid as your healer. To me, that's what 90% of the clerics I've seen out there play like WHEN COMPARED TO Vendrix. Tzzird. Take any 50 ranger and replace Tzzird with him. You just lost 2 fighters. That's how much I value him. I would rather throw out 3 random 50th melee types and take Tzzird instead to go into any situation. No joke. Is this because I know these ppl well and I know how they play? To a small degree, yes. But it's mostly because they know what the hell to do, they know equipment (and if anyone tells me again that equipment doesn't make a difference, i'm gonna spank them), and they are reliable fighters. Now, I just used these guys as examples. Other ppl from their classes know how to play well. But most just don't. It's not a bad thing, hell, it is a game, ppl can care about it, and spend time on it, and try to get good at it, however much they feel like. But there IS a resultant difference in playing skill, and it IS huge. I think a lot of people are tempted to say "well, da/ice/friends has just been around longer, they don't know how to play any better than I do".. but ask yourself, is that really true? Or are you just trying to make yourself feel better about the recent asswhoopings you've received?
just messin wit ya. Don't put other people's skeelz down so you can feel
better about yourself 
Not saying you necessarily did that Ablazen (as I can't read your mind -
thank god), but just saying it as a general statement, cuz I think ppl are
tempted to make that mistake.Just givin' props to my crew, cuz they're the best. cheers, kzz
| |
| Khelder Unregistered User (3/27/00 5:52:34 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
I do agree that skills make up much much more then armor do, and armor makes those goals that youve alrdy applied yer skills to that much easier. I dont agree with some of Kzz's quote tho. Dont remeber exact, last page or so, he said something along the lines of "every member in da`kor is the best bar none". Yes, da`kor does have some very good players, but, how many ppl have you grouped with outside of da`kor lately Kzz? How many ppl have you seen fight in an organized enironment? When is the last time you saw a sole member outside of da`ice be forced to make on the spot decisions? I agree da`kor does have some good members, but to discredit anyone outside of them to be equal to or even better then is ridiculous. Another thing I thought I should mention is this. Skills in eq, from what ive seen of friends I know, in all guilds, including da`kor, grow over time. When the server was young, da`kor was the most organized, and they had about 4 motnhs of time to practice in any zone they wanted, because zones were never taken. You guys had the time to practice, and learn. This is not to say other ppl werent around at the time. I feel almost all the original 50's are fairly skilled at this game. Hell, if this is to be a brag fest 2000 (Cattie's last post) then I can say with confidence I feel no rogue on this server is better then me, they may be equal to, but not better skilled. Presently, with all the people approaching 50, they DONT have the time to fool around and learn..zones are ALWAYS taken, and they jump on an oppurtunity to go to aplane they can, i dont blame em. And to reply to your last paragraph, Kzz. Yes, I feel da`kor is skilled because they have ben around longer. I can think of a few ppl that were naturally good at playing the game in da`kor that Ihave grouped with, and I can think of a few that were terrible at playing the game whne I grouped this. I think the time you guys were able to spend together in an almost empty high lvl world changed those bad players into formidable players.
| |
| Kzzern
Global user (3/27/00 7:01:41 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
> They [da/ice/friends] have the most impressive collection > of the most badass asskickers on the server - bar none. > every member in da`kor is the best bar none Two very different statements. I said the first, not the second. If you're gonna quote me and react to it, please have the courtesy to scroll up and read what I actually said. And no, they don't say the same thing. This is not an english class, so I won't try to explain why
I will say this : I never said, nor do I believe, that there aren't
excellent players outside da/ice/friends.And since you're asking, I actually have grouped with a lot of people outside da/ice/friends recently, some with Kzz, and some with my twink. And I've also watched a lot of other's recent raids over the shoulders of rl friends. I have talked to people as their raids were happening and they told me in detail what kinds of things were transpiring. Not to mention the fact that I personally know, and have grouped with, or seen fight, most of the 46+ crowd on the server. You can choose to not believe that
But it is true. I spend a lot more time outside da/ice/friends, and
outside planes/dragons, than you think.> I feel almost all the original 50's are fairly skilled at this game Humbly disagree on that one. > I feel no rogue on this server is better then me, they may be equal to, but not better skilled
but ofcourse they aren't.Cattie has a right to brag... she spent the time to learn, and she listened to her elder's advice... and now she's one of the best warriors on the server. Even though she's a DE. 
Ofcourse, her attitude still needs adjustment. *spanks Cat*> with all the people approaching 50, they DONT have the time to fool around and learn Funny, my personal observation was that the proportion of good players to bad players is about the same among old schoolers and newcomers. I don't see how having empty zones and few players helps you learn how to play. In fact, I should think that newcomers would have an easier job of learning, since they can always get into some sort of group, and interact with many more classes and player types than the old schoolers had a chance to. I agree, a good portion of learning how to play involves spending a lot of time and gaining experience. But it's also about looking at your skills/spells and THINKING about them. It's about having the balls and the ingenuity to try new things. It's about listening to other's advice and considering it. And, ofcourse, it's about having a few neurons so you can add 2 and 2 together. So, in conclusion, I strongly disagree with any claims that /played time is directly proportional to skill. I also disagree with any claims that the earlier your char's birthdate is, the better a player you are likely to be. And, once again, I disagree with Ablazen's mumbo jumbo about skills not varying much in EQ.
kzz
| |
| Vendrix Global user (3/27/00 7:19:59 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
I got chills. Theyre multiplyin...and Im losin control. Cause the power...your supplyin. Its electrifyin! Skills? I thought you said chills!? Damnit! Vendrix | |
| Ogmuk Administrator (3/27/00 7:54:19 am) Reply |
Re: Farming
Dragons
Sharasali Shadowsoul: Quote: Oh my god, are you serious? So these few cleric buffs of her makes Vox so hard? I assume, if Vox wasn't able to buff herself she would been beaten alot more by non-Da`Ice guilds? *cleans screen from laughing* Tell you what, if you give 1 random figher a pummice stone he/she could totally dispell ALL Vox's buffs! :O Conclusion: You cannot farm dragons. Dragon will always stay tough and a bitch to fight.. Quote: It's not called farming, it's called ownage. You need about 8 men to farm PoF. You will always need 25+ to kill a dragon. Ugh, face it, you cannot farm dragons :o If Vox took us 1 hour, why should we stop when we're HOT? Why not share our HOTNESS with Nagafen? HOT dragon luv... Quote: Ahhh, so you cannot farm in PoF since you don't got rooms and you would always farm in PoH. Or you cannot farm in a plane at all, since there are no rare spawns. They are all common, perhaps the repop of 1 takes a bit longer than another, but they aren't "special spawns", unless of course every spawn is considered as "special spawn" and thus everyone is considered as a "farmer" since they're "killing the specials as they spawn". Uhmm and you cannot farm dragons since they aren't special but common spawns (although it takes 8 days for them to repop, but still a 100% spawn). Doesn't seem the "right" definition to me. Quote: Another very poor definition... "I've became 2 billions poorer this year... *cough* in relation to Bill Gates *cough*" Nobody is getting poorer, period. Quote: We do what we feel like :o If we wanna go smack some dragon butt we kill a dragon, if we want to do a plane, either we will pick PoF, PoH or PoA. Of course, only if there are no other people which we would be interfering in the plane. Quote: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Quasar/6050/oops.wav(Army of Darkness)
Edited by Ogmuk at:
3/27/00 7:54:19 am | |
| Kenian
Global user (3/27/00 8:20:38 am) Reply |
Re: Farming
Dragons
Looking to trade BCP for BEBP ) Oo Kenian/Renadiel | |
| Kalten Unregistered User (3/27/00 12:06:17 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
"And there also been occasion, several actually when we backed away to let other guild try to kill them, has anyone said thank you or anything to us, nope." I think I've shown gratitude for letting da`ice giving us a shot at vox. You flame us for being assholes to da`kor but when appreciate the good things cant you give us credit cattie? Maybe this will make it more clear to you. THANK YOU FOR LETTING US TRY VOX!!!!!! THANK YOU VENDRIX FOR HELPING ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS!! Maybe this will stop you from making general comments about the server. As to da`kor being the most skilled people and whatnot. Im sorry, I really have to disagree here. Maybe they have a better knowledge of the game now only because of practice but dont try to say they are better players than the rest of us. Check Vendrix other post. He said we basically fucked up on vox (not disagreeing with him) He also said it reminded him of his first vox attempt. Did you guys go to planes/dragons on your first day as a guild and just kick ass flawlessly? I doubt it. As to replacing a warrior with another warrior. Cattie, yes there are retards(sorry if this word is offensive) out there who dont know what snare is. But I can tell you this also. Take yourself out, give a number of warriors your position with your equipment and there wont be much difference. Have them go on a few raids to get to know how you work together and there will be almost no difference. Im sorry but there is no natural born talent to play everquest. Maybe if your saying skill is experience in doing things then yes you have more. But you have no natural born talent and honestly I wouldnt say any of the da`kor paladins are better than me skillwise. As to ablazens comment with skill and soccer. Take out 1 member of the team and put someone off the street in and there will be a HUGE difference. Take a paladin from da`kor out and put me in, give me instructions, and i'll bet you little to no difference will be seen.
| |
| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/27/00 12:20:19 pm) Reply |
Re: Farming
Dragons
OK =) Wow, never thought this would become the heated debate it is, and while i don't change my primary view point, i will concende that there is 'in fact' some degree of skill in everquest. However, i won't delve any further into it after this post. {cattie} -------- >so you honestly think that all warriors are equal?, all necros are equal? all druid are just as good? I never said this, not even out of context i don't think. If it was interpreted this way, i'm sorry. Things that seperate individuals in any type of 'competitive' activity isn't always a result of there 'l33t' skills. This is what i was trying to say. I was saying that most success in everquest is due to other factors (while i do agree skill is a small factor in this). >i seen warriors(L50 ones) who tought all they would do is target mob, then hit Auto-Attack, and sit back and relax, and if you think this is all we do, then your dead wrong. This is a lack of knoweldge (IMO) of the capabilities of the class. For example, at lvl 30, i'm sure VERY few warriors used there abiltiy to bash while duel wielding. Once they leraned of this ablitity, they began to use it. I don't view this as 'skill', merely as a gathering of knowledge, and the abilties of ones class (weakness's and strengths). >Wizards who on each mob goes from fm to oom in 5 secs flat. Hehe =) this is kinda funny. But like i said above, when they 'learn' what to do, things will get better. But i do agree, that there is some 'skill' in doing this. >Sorry ablazen, but your dead wrong, each of us knows how to play our classes, and play them in coordinace with each other, this is skills. It's teamwork =) But i do agree, most people in da`kor/ice clan (others of course) know how to play there classes exceptionally well. kzzern ------ >And it's funny that you say "(and provide him with information and directions about what to do)"... first, knowing "what to do" is what makes a skilled player, and second, you can't just tell ppl "what to do." It takes brains, experience, and desire to learn "what to do." It can't be spoonfed. I agree knowing what to do is what makes a skilled player. That's why i put that little blurb in brackets. >Uh.. so.. how would you explain guilds like Legacy of Steel on Nameless, a server that's months younger than ours? Yea, the ones that have 2 FAs so far. They knew how to play before Nameless was started, so they _put_ themselves in the right place at the right time. Their success is a prime example of why skill matters, and sorry bro, it ain't just luck o' the draw. I'm very famliar with LoS, and they are a bunch of skilled players. Bleh, i'm starting to agree =) What i meant by 'luck of the draw' (did i ever say this?) was something more alongs the context of 'luck of being one of the first to hit lvl 50'. Like you pointed out, LoS power levelled themselves to 50, and conqured the planes? Are they more skilled because they invested 15hrs/day when the server came up? *shrugs* >"the variance of skills in Everquest is minimal" I take this comment back =) >Or are you just trying to make yourself feel better about the recent asswhoopings you've received? just messin wit ya. Bastard =) If anything, the ass-whopping i receive make me a better player (IMO atleast). 
on't put other people's skeelz down so you can feel better about yourself
I never intended to do this. I'm sorry if i've done this. The people who argued this post are some of the people who I BELIEVE play there class to the fullest potential (Kzzern, Enki, Cattie, to name a few). I don't get off on making other people feel worse. In fact, i log into EQ thinking only 1 thing: "i'm here to have fun". >Not saying you necessarily did that Ablazen (as I can't read your mind - thank god), /em stares dreamily at Kzzern Well, said and done, i think it goes down to how one defines 'skills'. I will concede that EQ does require 'x-amount' of skill, and I have always, and will always feel that not every lvl 50 warrior/druid/whatever is the same. I've never said this, and please don't intrepret my comments as such.
| |
| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/27/00 12:26:34 pm) Reply |
Re: Farming
Dragons
>Im sorry but there is no natural born talent to play everquest. This is what i was trying to say to some extent. I equate skill with 'talent'. Everquest, IMO, is a 'pool' of knowledge, the more you gain, the better you get (not necessarily skill). >Maybe if your saying skill is experience in doing things then yes you have more This is how some peopel perceive skill, but not me *Shrug*. Again =) as my above post, there are definately 'better' and 'worse' players, not every druid is the same. but i'm argueing this is as a result of there knowledge, and not neccesarily because of there skill.
| |
| Vendrix Global user (3/27/00 12:32:25 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
As for replacing Cattie with a_random_level50_warrior, I would notice the difference. Not all warriors can fit their fat ass into a pair of size 2 Mithril Greeves(sorry Cattie, time to hit the StairMaster™) and not all warriors dual wield and still bash without missing a swing. Vendrix | |
| Kzzern
Global user (3/27/00 3:14:50 pm) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
Laff ablazen... Don't get any ideas!! kzz /em saving himself for Vendrix
| |
| Ablazen
Holysword Global user (3/28/00 1:09:32 am) Reply |
Re: Why is
this considered bad taste?
doh =( and i thought we had a deal. /em looks over to vendrix in hope
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